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Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 2,127 Location: Thornton Cleveleys
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Morning! This is going to be a bit of a ramble, sorry guys, but I do need to get this off my chest so I can go do something other than ponder! Well, what a turnround! Not sure whether to be shocked or whether I should actually have seen it coming. I suppose I just accept the inevitable as yet another unexpected change along the path of the Rheumatoid journey. I was diagnosed with sero-negative RA 23 years ago, aged 31; the Rheumatoid Factor showed no antibodies present and of course, back then, anti-ccp testing was not available. The diagnosis was made from presenting symptoms, severe joint inflammation, tenderness, fatigue, anaemia and much weight loss. I was given the ‘usual’ available treatments of the day, chloroquine, high dose steroids and anti inflammatories; all in place to bring the symptoms under control. It took the edge off an illness that left me not just housebound but very incapacitated, unable to walk barely able to move. My weight plummeted by three stone from a fairly healthy nine stone. After two years or so I managed to pull round from the worst of the disease but not without having sustained considerable joint damage to both feet and both hands/wrists on the way. Since then it’s been a mish-mash of ‘try it and see’ treatments; numerous anti-inflammatories (most didn’t touch it!), gold injections (highly toxic and rarely used these days), sulphasalasine, Hydroxychloroquine, Leflunomide (tried twice), Methotrexate (tried twice) and Infliximab ... all failed! They didn’t try Azathioprine and Ciclosporin because I was past the point at which these would have been of use anyway. Prednisolone has been the main stay throughout and Enbrel has worked well combined with Methotrexate. Last year Methotrexate gave up causing a load of problems en route! Now the ruddy disease runs its own course. The rheumatologist is now concerned (or perhaps that’s just me!) about where to go from here, sero-negative makes treatment options limited. But, she has a brainwave (not what I would call it exactly but heyho let's not worry about semantics)! Let’s do an anti-CCP test ... why not indeed nothing to lose! So, today my status changes, having slept, or rather pondered overnight, on it. I’m now sero-positive, a whole new ball game. I can’t turn back the clock (even with my wand!) but I wonder why this was never checked when the anti-CCP test first became available? My RF is still only just bordering on weakly positive (despite high anti-CCP which was done at the same time) which kind of suggests that I may well have been sero-positive all along. Perhaps it wouldn’t have made any difference to the inevitable outcome, who knows? On we go, another day, a sunny one, the prospect of knee replacements, ankle surgery, hand surgery and perhaps Rituximab. If only I’d been diagnosed last week ... I would be literally ‘jumping for joy’ Lyn x
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Rank: Advanced Member  Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/3/2009 Posts: 3,157 Location: Huddersfield
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Hi Lyn,
Never short of surprises is it, this damned RA? I wonder how many others with sero negative RA eventually become positive without knowing it? Apparently this can happen with lupus, after so long all the blood tests become positive. I don't blame you for wondering if the outcome might have been different for you if you'd been positive all along, but it does look to me as if you have tried all the drugs you would have been given if you were RA positive from the start. Perhaps you could maybe try humira now?
Love, Doreen xx
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Rank: Advanced Member  Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/25/2010 Posts: 1,289 Location: Buckinghamshire
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hi Lyn,
well that does sound amazing.
i know medications have come a long way this past ten years ... so in turn getting on the right drugs early could have done so much to stem the damage, but i know in your case you've run the whole gammat.
do you know what will be next in store drug wise..?
i'm still very much learning about this dreaded RA and to be honest i prefer to learn as i go along as i know we are all different and there is no given answers.
well keep positive Lyn and really hope there is something that will work for you, my Rheumy Nurse says there is a lot of research going on re meds but i wonder how long that's gonna take.
Suzanne x
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Rank: Advanced Member  Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 1,524 Location: W. Yorkshire
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Sheesh Lyn! Your mind must reeling with 'what ifs' right now. YES I'VE CHANGED, PAIN DOES THAT TO PEOPLE.
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Rank: Advanced Member  Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/30/2010 Posts: 507 Location: Gravesend
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my whole life is full of "what ifs" so i prefer "here and now" :) richie :) "The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is like an eggs-and-ham breakfast: the chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."
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Rank: Advanced Member  Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/3/2009 Posts: 1,689 Location: Durham
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Well Lyn, there`s nothing like a few surprises to make life interesting! I hope now things have changed they will be able to give you more options, and the RA can be halted in its tracks - don`t know if that`s just a "pipe dream," but here`s hoping anyway. Kathleen x
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Rank: Advanced Member  Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/3/2009 Posts: 1,081
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Hi Lyn,
At least it explains a lot!!!! Now all has been revealed, what are the plans (if any) to get you some different treatment now? I know you menioned Rituximab.
Julie xxx
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Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 2,127 Location: Thornton Cleveleys
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I had a really long session with the Rheumatology Nurse Practitioner last night after our NRAS group planning meeting. She went through the results and what it would mean but I must admit after a two and a half hour meeting, which I chaired, my head was somewhat elsewhere! However ... think I've got my head back in place now! I have a few choices which mainly focus around whether I get my knee replaced now (within 18 weeks apparently  ) or later. The knee is certainly causing big problems and the inflammation is only being stabilised by high dose prednisolone, maximum Naproxen, Enbrel and Leflunomide. If the knee was replaced I might be in a better position all round. If I go ahead, then now would not be the time to change drugs as they would have to be stopped for the op. But post op. I could, if I keep pushing, perhaps get to try methotrexate again with the Enbrel, which worked well for so long. I could try Azathioprin, but the results that came back suggested that my body would not metabolise this drug well meaning I could have a bad reaction and it would have to be carefully monitored. Alternatively I would be offered Rituximab which is the next drug in the sequence and the one the rheumatologist wants me to have. They would not consider another anti-tnf such as Humira or Cimzia because I have already had two. Tocilizumab is now NICE approved but cannot be used ahead of Rituximab! If I postpone the knee replacement she will change the treatment in the next few months following further assessment. But then I'm on another try it and see. I think I have to go for the knee op., it's not something I can keep putting off and will need doing at some point soon. The other knee is going the same way and both ankles are becoming a problem. Think after that I will push to try the methotrexate again and hope it doesn't make me neutropenic again. Failing that it will have to be Rituximab. So now I just have to work the knee op around the weekend in Warwick, Co-ordinators training and two boys going to university in September!! Dear me, such is life  AND I have to ask my GP to refer me back to orthopaedics because apparently it will be quicker than waiting for Rheumatology to do it?? Duh, GP is going to be thrilled, I can see his face now Thank you all for your kind thoughts, Lyn x
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Rank: Advanced Member  Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/29/2010 Posts: 264
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Goodness me Lyn, I never realised that smarties had such an effect that could change one from negative to postive! Seriously, its stunning isn't it that nobody tested for this before now. I didn't know this could happen, does it also work the other way as well? I know you are not keen to go the Rituximab route, but as you say having the knee replaced could be a real bonus especially if you can get in quickly for it. perhaps then you can stay on the enbrel for a bit. I hope you have a relaxing weekend and are able to enjoy a stress free weekend. Best wishes Sheila
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Rank: Advanced Member  Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/28/2011 Posts: 956 Location: North Preston
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Hi Lyn
There can't be much left, if anything, that you haven't tried. I am afraid I am quite ignorant on this subject although I know only too well about RA, I have never heard of sero-negative or positive RA. Could you please explain it to me
Sheila G x
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Rank: Advanced Member  Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/3/2009 Posts: 2,237 Location: nr Southampton
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Hi Lyn,
just to say congratulations on the RA bingo, surely you have enough to contend with already?
try not to worry too much re the NICE on the drugs- the consultant can make a "special case" if necessary and claim funding that way. I have needed this a few times.
hope the timings work out alright Lyn, its such a juggle. I have realised Michael is on suspended timetable in a couple of wks and needs me home and helping with his support for GCSEs.... it goes on eh?!
much love
Jenni xxhow to be a velvet bulldoser
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Rank: Advanced Member  Groups: Registered
Joined: 4/20/2010 Posts: 1,749 Location: Somerset
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Oh Lynn
Gosh what a parlarva. What a strange thing this RA is . I am sero negative at the moment as well.
Gosh your head must be buzzing right enough. I am sure it will be good to get your knee replacement though and sooner the better.
Chin up deep breath and hopefully another sunny day tomorrow.
Rose x
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Rank: Advanced Member  Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 346
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Hi Lyn, No wonder you are reeling from all this. It is alot to take in. I can't really add much more to what others have written, but wish you all the best with everything.
Bevxx
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Rank: Advanced Member  Groups: Registered
Joined: 9/5/2010 Posts: 364 Location: mid glamorgan
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Hi lyn, My head is spinning just reading your Post! No wonder you dont know what to do for the best. Really hope you dont have to wait too long for op on your knee and then fingers crossed whichever route you choose medication wise will be the right one. Take care love Ceri xx
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Rank: Advanced Member  Groups: Registered
Joined: 2/18/2010 Posts: 1,098 Location: farningham kent
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My goodness me Lyn life never ceases to amaze us ! I hope you are able to get the knee op sorted out in early course, so that you can take the best course of action with drug regime Have a lovely weekend. Julia xx
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Rank: Advanced Member  Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/3/2009 Posts: 714
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Lyn
I am sorry you are having such a rough time. It is difficult knowing what the best course is to take. As you know I had my knee op on 14th January and I am still not fully mobile. You need to make sure you leave yourself enough time to fully concentrate on your recovery and make sure there is someone there to do everything for you in the first few weeks. I did not realise how much I would have to rely on my family. You will have to do lots of physio at least three times a day. I have been told it could be another three months before I am fully back to good mobility which is six months in total. This on top of coping with the good old RA is a big commitment. On the positive side my RA did go into remission for 12 weeks and although it is now back with a vengenace there is no pain in my knee which is wonderful. I would definitely recommend a knee replacement and will have my other one done at some point but it is not a light undertaking.
Good luck and take care.
Jackie xx
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Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/4/2010 Posts: 576
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Wow Lyn - you are certainly full of surprises! Is it a good thing that you are now sero+? I didn't realise there were different options if you were sero-.
I think if I knew my knee was going to need replacing, I would get the surgeries over with then see if your preferred MTX and Enbrel did the job. It would be good to know that you have something new in the pipeline to try if you need to later. good luck xx Ailsa
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Rank: Advanced Member  Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 1,524 Location: W. Yorkshire
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yes I agree- it seems to me that you should get that knee sorted out as a priority. YES I'VE CHANGED, PAIN DOES THAT TO PEOPLE.
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Rank: Member  Groups: Registered
Joined: 4/1/2011 Posts: 17 Location: cheltenham
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As a newbie to all of this, and I dont understand half of what your talking about sero negative etc. I wish you well in what ever choice you make. My partner has had cancer the last 18 months and we kept thinking that there are people with worse problems than us and kept a positive spin on it, which I am trying to do with my new diagnosis. It's difficult I know, when you don't feel well, just bask in this glorious weather and hope it stays with us for a while longer xx minxie
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Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 2,127 Location: Thornton Cleveleys
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Sheila-R wrote:... from negative to positive! ... I didn't know this could happen, does it also work the other way as well? ...
Hi Sheila R. I am pretty sure that once you are confirmed sero-positive that's the way you stay! The existence of autoimmune antibodies (immune proteins) in the bloodwork gives rise to a diagnosis of sero-positive RA. Once the antibodies are present they stay put (unless modified by biologic drugs). Sheila-G wrote:... I have never heard of sero-negative or positive RA. Could you please explain it to me ... Hi Sheila-G RA can be either sero-negative or sero-positive. There are various lab tests that can be done to ascertain the correct diagnosis and sometimes the best form of treatment. The Rheumatoid Factor test is not particularly reliable for diagnosing RA (it was the only one around when I was diagnosed!) and the anti-CCP is more commonly used these days. If autoimmune-antibodies are found in the blood you will be diagnosed as sero-positive. If they are not present you are sero-negative. It has long been suggested that if you are sero-negative you will have a milder form of the disease, something I have long argued about (and wrongly so I now find!). It makes sense that if you are not carrying the antibodies then in theory the disease should be fairly mild and easily controlled by DMARD therapy. I have always had aggressive, difficult to control, disease resulting in substantial joint damage. Not sure why no-one thought to check the anti-CCP sooner. I just believed what I was told (which is actually quite unlike me!!); Mulder and Scully - trust no-one, that's me!! jenni_b wrote:... I have realised Michael is on suspended timetable in a couple of wks ... Hi Jenni Ah yes, Louis too ... GSCEs cometh and with it revision, testing, exams and yes it goes on and on! Good luck Michael  x Thank you everybody for all your thoughts and comments too. I am off to see the GP tomorrow, no actually it's now today, to see about the referral for left knee replacement. Although I have reservations, due to age and the implications for the future, I know I can't stay on all this prednisolone and naproxen forever! They are the only things keeping the pain and inflammation at bay at the moment. So easy to forget the realities of the situation when things appear okay! I do need to get this done because my other knee isn't far behind and both ankles are becoming problematical. If I leave things I will end up having to be completely rebuilt!! Hmmm.... Fortunately Minxie I am almost always positive ... you have to be with the unpredictability of this disease. Lyn x
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